The topic is crytal clear. I'd be looking forward for the participation of @||Aneeket|| Sir, @||Nikhlesh Mathur|| Sir, @||suni207|| , @||Pooja Kohli|| , @||Priya|| , @||Neelu Kapoor|| mam, @||Neeraj Gupta735|| , @||gopal sharma.|| , @vArun Pande79704 , @||arun dev|| and other experts and sharing th... View More
I'm thrilled to see the ideas and views of all the experts. And I think what can be the better moment to stop any discussion when we have all the parameters explained. I thank all for the participation and I hope for similar good response in future too.
I'm thrilled to see the ideas and views of all the experts. And I think what can be the better moment to stop any discussion when we have all the parameters explained.
I thank all for the participation and I hope for similar good response in future too.
Our sysem may b longest written, it is may b one of da perfect in da world but it will b da best only if the guardians of system(politicians) keep it best. Just look our neighboring country china they follow communism in mid 60s both economies wer almost same and wat abt now? V follow da best system in da world y v r so back in race. World says India a poor country, If its right den Andimuthu Raja did world second highest corruption which amounts $39 billion—a sum about equal to India's defense budget, my question is how do v recover da amount which would hav been used for national development? Not just raja many would hav
...more
Our sysem may b longest written, it is may b one of da perfect in da world but it will b da best only if the guardians of system(politicians) keep it best. Just look our neighboring country china they follow communism in mid 60s both economies wer almost same and wat abt now? V follow da best system in da world y v r so back in race. World says India a poor country, If its right den Andimuthu Raja did world second highest corruption which amounts $39 billion—a sum about equal to India's defense budget, my question is how do v recover da amount which would hav been used for national development? Not just raja many would hav grilled if our system followed da best. Not just criticism will create result, v need to bring strong changes in our system a new revolution just begin with anna and again it ll come as it's just a part of TRUE DEMOCRACY. I believe in Annas bill as other citizens, m sure if every1 has accountability den then da situation to call our system monarch wont arise…
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Our sysem may b longest written, it is may b one of da perfect in da world but it will b da best only if the guardians of system(politicians) keep it best. Just look our neighboring country china they follow communism in mid 60s both economies wer almost same and wat abt now? V follow da best system in da world y v r so back in race. World says India a poor country, If its right den Andimuthu Raja did world second highest corruption which amounts $39 billion—a sum about equal to India’s defense budget, my question is how do v recover da amount which would hav been used for national development? Not just raja many would hav grilled if our system followed da best. Not just criticism will create result, v need to bring strong changes in our system a new revolution just begin with anna and again it ll come as it’s just a part of TRUE DEMOCRACY. I believe in Annas bill as other citizens, m sure if every1 has accountability den then da situation to call our system monarch wont arise…
I very much agree with gopal, It's unfortunate that v call our system a monarchy, 62 years have passed since 1947. Out these 62 years, Congress ruled for 49 Years. Other Parties Ruled only 13 years. Almost 80% of Time since Independence Congress Ruled India. Yes the parties was democratically elected same was da case in west Bengal were communist party continuously ruled for 34 years. India got a population of 125million but if v look at politics now der is only one single party which has da majority to rule, der is a saying among Indian “born in gandi family = born as pm”. I am not criticizing any party, people accepting dem so de
...more
I very much agree with gopal, It's unfortunate that v call our system a monarchy, 62 years have passed since 1947. Out these 62 years, Congress ruled for 49 Years. Other Parties Ruled only 13 years. Almost 80% of Time since Independence Congress Ruled India. Yes the parties was democratically elected same was da case in west Bengal were communist party continuously ruled for 34 years. India got a population of 125million but if v look at politics now der is only one single party which has da majority to rule, der is a saying among Indian “born in gandi family = born as pm”. I am not criticizing any party, people accepting dem so dey r in power, but another silent fact is dat v hav no choice yet e.g. if 5 corrupted politicians r standing whom v ll elect….?
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I very much agree with gopal,
It’s unfortunate that v call our system a monarchy, 62 years have passed since 1947. Out these 62 years, Congress ruled for 49 Years. Other Parties Ruled only 13 years. Almost 80% of Time since Independence Congress Ruled India. Yes the parties was democratically elected same was da case in west Bengal were communist party continuously ruled for 34 years. India got a population of 125million but if v look at politics now der is only one single party which has da majority to rule, der is a saying among Indian “born in gandi family = born as pm”.
I am not criticizing any party, people accepting dem so dey r in power, but another silent fact is dat v hav no choice yet e.g. if 5 corrupted politicians r standing whom v ll elect….?
I would like to add another dimension to the topic that if it is perceived as that democracy necessarily involves corruption then think about China. They don't have democracy and there are rumors that China is above all when it comes to corruption. But, as their Political and Bureaucratic system is Oblique, not even translucent, so, the Scams do not get in the eyes of the common man.
I would like to add another dimension to the topic that if it is perceived as that democracy necessarily involves corruption then think about China. They don't have democracy and there are rumors that China is above all when it comes to corruption. But, as their Political and Bureaucratic system is Oblique, not even translucent, so, the Scams do not get in the eyes of the common man.
Nikhlesh Mathur See sir, if I talk just on the topic of the discussion then also I will say, yes! But, do the story ends here? I think, as Neelu Kapoor mam/sir said, in other words in democracy a leader elected is a five year king! And also that his future is not secure. It doesn't mean that he will do whatever he want, he can do. He has to do work for his people either willingly or unwillingly for the sake of his people, as he want himself to be in the same chair for another term as well. So, this differentiates a Monarch from a minister. 'IDEALLY'! Now coming back to the discussion topic, if we want democracy, then corruption comes a
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Nikhlesh Mathur See sir, if I talk just on the topic of the discussion then also I will say, yes! But, do the story ends here? I think, as Neelu Kapoor mam/sir said, in other words in democracy a leader elected is a five year king! And also that his future is not secure. It doesn't mean that he will do whatever he want, he can do. He has to do work for his people either willingly or unwillingly for the sake of his people, as he want himself to be in the same chair for another term as well. So, this differentiates a Monarch from a minister. 'IDEALLY'! Now coming back to the discussion topic, if we want democracy, then corruption comes as an addon, I do think so. But, I want to correlate it with a machine again. If you have a machine and it is well greased, then the FRICTION will be at its lowest and if regular greasing is done, then the friction will remain at the lowest level, will not be zero, mind you! If we talk of an analogy between a machine and a system, so in that case also, CORRUPTION can never be zero, but can be limited to its lowest level if the 'GREASING', in this case MODIFICATIONS are done! So, I would suggest all the respected people to talk these modifications rather than just the YES and NO!
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Nikhlesh Mathur See sir, if I talk just on the topic of the discussion then also I will say, yes! But, do the story ends here?
I think, as Neelu Kapoor mam/sir said, in other words in democracy a leader elected is a five year king! And also that his future is not secure.
It doesn't mean that he will do whatever he want, he can do. He has to do work for his people either willingly or unwillingly for the sake of his people, as he want himself to be in the same chair for another term as well. So, this differentiates a Monarch from a minister. 'IDEALLY'!
Now coming back to the discussion topic, if we want democracy, then corruption comes as an addon, I do think so. But, I want to correlate it with a machine again. If you have a machine and it is well greased, then the FRICTION will be at its lowest and if regular greasing is done, then the friction will remain at the lowest level, will not be zero, mind you!
If we talk of an analogy between a machine and a system, so in that case also, CORRUPTION can never be zero, but can be limited to its lowest level if the 'GREASING', in this case MODIFICATIONS are done!
So, I would suggest all the respected people to talk these modifications rather than just the YES and NO!
We could know about corruption because of democracy We need to introspect ourselves first that are we not the one who is encouraging corruption may be due to little personal favor or fear in getting trouble or losing job We either encourage by supporting in the act that helps other to undergo corrupt ways or remain silent remember what Mahatma Gandhi had said not opposing violence is violence similarly not opposing corruption is corruption
We could know about corruption because of democracy We need to introspect ourselves first that are we not the one who is encouraging corruption may be due to little personal favor or fear in getting trouble or losing job We either encourage by supporting in the act that helps other to undergo corrupt ways or remain silent remember what Mahatma Gandhi had said not opposing violence is violence similarly not opposing corruption is corruption
(the usage of Monarch in my texts is not meant in the derogatory sense, the best known indian rulers yet have been monarchs, and are widely respected in even non-indian companies)
(the usage of Monarch in my texts is not meant in the derogatory sense, the best known indian rulers yet have been monarchs, and are widely respected in even non-indian companies)
Survival of the fittest is a maxim and not a rule which can be enforced. Likewise, what should happen is not what happens. A system would redesign itself based on human frailties and available ground for interpretation. No written line exists which can't be interpreted differently. Since democracy doesn't ensure that the ruler/ leader feels secure about his future unlike a Monarchy, hence the system evolves and takes the shape that the indian democracy is (hence the case for monarchy). We can harp about what should happen, but we need to consider what can happen before designing a system. Again, an example that illustrates in can be t
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Survival of the fittest is a maxim and not a rule which can be enforced. Likewise, what should happen is not what happens. A system would redesign itself based on human frailties and available ground for interpretation. No written line exists which can't be interpreted differently. Since democracy doesn't ensure that the ruler/ leader feels secure about his future unlike a Monarchy, hence the system evolves and takes the shape that the indian democracy is (hence the case for monarchy). We can harp about what should happen, but we need to consider what can happen before designing a system. Again, an example that illustrates in can be that if there is rule in any sport it is there to be interpreted by everyone in their best interests. I am not advocating corruption, I am only present either side of it. My being ideal doesn't bind my politician to do the same, in fact it helps him concentrate on the remaining people. i.e. a common man is not bothered whether the ruler is corrupt or not, whether he is biased or not. he is more concerned with his immediate benefits. So as long as they are taken care of, he is happy and more free to think of more widespread benefits. I am not trying to project the hopelessness of the situation, but albeit showing where hope could like. Democracy will always run in a monarchical manner since it too is centred on choosing your monarch (albeit by people). So, it's up to the personal preference of the monarch on how the democracy functions. But since democracy is decentralization too, the power is actually a matrix of monarchs :-)
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Survival of the fittest is a maxim and not a rule which can be enforced. Likewise, what should happen is not what happens. A system would redesign itself based on human frailties and available ground for interpretation. No written line exists which can't be interpreted differently. Since democracy doesn't ensure that the ruler/ leader feels secure about his future unlike a Monarchy, hence the system evolves and takes the shape that the indian democracy is (hence the case for monarchy). We can harp about what should happen, but we need to consider what can happen before designing a system. Again, an example that illustrates in can be that if there is rule in any sport it is there to be interpreted by everyone in their best interests. I am not advocating corruption, I am only present either side of it. My being ideal doesn't bind my politician to do the same, in fact it helps him concentrate on the remaining people. i.e. a common man is not bothered whether the ruler is corrupt or not, whether he is biased or not. he is more concerned with his immediate benefits. So as long as they are taken care of, he is happy and more free to think of more widespread benefits. I am not trying to project the hopelessness of the situation, but albeit showing where hope could like. Democracy will always run in a monarchical manner since it too is centred on choosing your monarch (albeit by people). So, it's up to the personal preference of the monarch on how the democracy functions. But since democracy is decentralization too, the power is actually a matrix of monarchs :-)
In my opinion citizens are also responsible for corruption, If citizens will not know their rights , then how can we imagine a good future for that country , It is also a worried part for INDIA , All citizen of India will be know about their rights and their voting value , we always only talk that there is so much corruption and all leaders are responsible for this but nobody does not even a try to remove this , trying to get the job done quickly, we are encouraging it (Corruption)
In my opinion citizens are also responsible for corruption, If citizens will not know their rights , then how can we imagine a good future for that country , It is also a worried part for INDIA , All citizen of India will be know about their rights and their voting value , we always only talk that there is so much corruption and all leaders are responsible for this but nobody does not even a try to remove this , trying to get the job done quickly, we are encouraging it (Corruption)
I have mentioned some improvements to the system. I think, this is what Anna's Anshan was for. He demanded the Lokpal Bill to carve out, 'I repeat', carve out corruption. He demanded the 'Citizen Charter' to bring transparency to the Bureaucratic system. He demanded Judicial Accountability Bill to bring transparency in the Judiciary. If we say our democratic system a Monarchy, then we must think about our Constitution which is the World's Best written. Yes, I agree corruption is there, BUT HAVE WE HEARD ABOUT A MACHINE NOT HAVING FRICTION IN IT. As is the case for friction, "CORRUPTION IS A NECESSARY EVIL TO OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM." What
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I have mentioned some improvements to the system. I think, this is what Anna's Anshan was for. He demanded the Lokpal Bill to carve out, 'I repeat', carve out corruption. He demanded the 'Citizen Charter' to bring transparency to the Bureaucratic system. He demanded Judicial Accountability Bill to bring transparency in the Judiciary. If we say our democratic system a Monarchy, then we must think about our Constitution which is the World's Best written. Yes, I agree corruption is there, BUT HAVE WE HEARD ABOUT A MACHINE NOT HAVING FRICTION IN IT. As is the case for friction, "CORRUPTION IS A NECESSARY EVIL TO OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM." What you say. Arvind Joshi245, Aneeket, Gautam Joshi, Neelu Kapoor, Nikhlesh Mathur.
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I have mentioned some improvements to the system. I think, this is what Anna's Anshan was for. He demanded the Lokpal Bill to carve out, 'I repeat', carve out corruption. He demanded the 'Citizen Charter' to bring transparency to the Bureaucratic system. He demanded Judicial Accountability Bill to bring transparency in the Judiciary.
If we say our democratic system a Monarchy, then we must think about our Constitution which is the World's Best written. Yes, I agree corruption is there, BUT HAVE WE HEARD ABOUT A MACHINE NOT HAVING FRICTION IN IT. As is the case for friction, "CORRUPTION IS A NECESSARY EVIL TO OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM." What you say. Arvind Joshi245, Aneeket, Gautam Joshi, Neelu Kapoor, Nikhlesh Mathur.
Neelu Kapoor Nikhlesh Mathur .I have an objection with the word 'MONARCHY' here. See, its very easy to criticize when it comes to the Indian Politics and above all 'the SYSTEM.' This is really unfortunate that if today the opposition says A.Raja, the Govt. says Yeddyurappa! Being an Indian we should acknowledge what we have and think about the improvements that can be incorporated to the SYSTEM. These 'YOU THERE I HERE' type of things we should leave for these leaders. What is your take on this sir. Arvind Joshi245.
Neelu Kapoor Nikhlesh Mathur .I have an objection with the word 'MONARCHY' here. See, its very easy to criticize when it comes to the Indian Politics and above all 'the SYSTEM.' This is really unfortunate that if today the opposition says A.Raja, the Govt. says Yeddyurappa!
Being an Indian we should acknowledge what we have and think about the improvements that can be incorporated to the SYSTEM. These 'YOU THERE I HERE' type of things we should leave for these leaders. What is your take on this sir. Arvind Joshi245.
I think our attitude should change first, As neelu pointed few sitting for 5yrs as monarch it obvious it roots corruption. v should realize dat in a democratic country people r rulers n politicians r da representatives who works for people unfortunately it never happens n results in misuse of power. Wat ever b da system, democracy or autocracy its v who accept and follows it. V should react if v feel its wrong else it will b a price v pay for our own ignorance….
I think our attitude should change first,
As neelu pointed few sitting for 5yrs as monarch it obvious it roots corruption. v should realize dat in a democratic country people r rulers n politicians r da representatives who works for people unfortunately it never happens n results in misuse of power. Wat ever b da system, democracy or autocracy its v who accept and follows it. V should react if v feel its wrong else it will b a price v pay for our own ignorance….
Why at first place should democracy have a price as high as corruption? Why can't the rules & regulations made in a democratic country be followed religiously by every single native. If one follows the regulations without trying to interpretate them to suit personal needs then corruption would not be there. Democracy is there to give power to the people contrary to Morarchy which gave power to only one person. In India the powers are distributed amongst the politicians and those with money + muscles or snatched by . I do not call it democracy in true sense at all. Such so called democracy is worse than Morarchy in my opinion. I do not
...more
Why at first place should democracy have a price as high as corruption? Why can't the rules & regulations made in a democratic country be followed religiously by every single native. If one follows the regulations without trying to interpretate them to suit personal needs then corruption would not be there. Democracy is there to give power to the people contrary to Morarchy which gave power to only one person. In India the powers are distributed amongst the politicians and those with money + muscles or snatched by . I do not call it democracy in true sense at all. Such so called democracy is worse than Morarchy in my opinion. I do not largely agree that corruptions is a price we are paying for democracy. It is infact a price we are paying to allow running the democracy in a monarchical manner.
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Why at first place should democracy have a price as high as corruption? Why can't the rules & regulations made in a democratic country be followed religiously by every single native. If one follows the regulations without trying to interpretate them to suit personal needs then corruption would not be there. Democracy is there to give power to the people contrary to Morarchy which gave power to only one person. In India the powers are distributed amongst the politicians and those with money + muscles or snatched by . I do not call it democracy in true sense at all. Such so called democracy is worse than Morarchy in my opinion.
I do not largely agree that corruptions is a price we are paying for democracy. It is infact a price we are paying to allow running the democracy in a monarchical manner.
surely there is some sense in this. a king is accorded permanent wealth and status and his decision can be made without consideration. however a 5 year king has to consider a lot of influences including various favors incurred during his journey to the throne.
surely there is some sense in this. a king is accorded permanent wealth and status and his decision can be made without consideration. however a 5 year king has to consider a lot of influences including various favors incurred during his journey to the throne.
I personally think that everyone, say it's politician, govt. employee, we the common mass and everyone is involved in corruption. Democracy is a tool, but a tool should be in a right workman. What do you all say? Is this sentence that "Corruption is the price we pay for democracy" is justified?
I personally think that everyone, say it's politician, govt. employee, we the common mass and everyone is involved in corruption. Democracy is a tool, but a tool should be in a right workman. What do you all say? Is this sentence that "Corruption is the price we pay for democracy" is justified?
Very well said Neelu Kapoor
I'm thrilled to see the ideas and views of all the experts. And I think what can be the better moment to stop any discussion when we have all the parameters explained.
Gautam Joshi Its really a NICE topic to discuss."""+1"""""
Our sysem may b longest written, it is may b one of da perfect in da world but it will b da best only if the guardians of system(politicians) keep it best. Just look our neighboring country china they follow communism in mid 60s both economies wer almost same and wat abt now? V follow da best system in da world y v r so back in race. World says India a poor country, If its right den Andimuthu Raja did world second highest corruption which amounts $39 billion—a sum about equal to India's defense budget, my question is how do v recover da amount which would hav been used for national development? Not just raja many would hav...more
I would like to add another dimension to the topic that if it is perceived as that democracy necessarily involves corruption then think about China. They don't have democracy and there are rumors that China is above all when it comes to corruption. But, as their Political and Bureaucratic system is Oblique, not even translucent, so, the Scams do not get in the eyes of the common man.
We could know about corruption because of democracy We need to introspect ourselves first that are we not the one who is encouraging corruption may be due to little personal favor or fear in getting trouble or losing job We either encourage by supporting in the act that helps other to undergo corrupt ways or remain silent remember what Mahatma Gandhi had said not opposing violence is violence similarly not opposing corruption is corruption
(the usage of Monarch in my texts is not meant in the derogatory sense, the best known indian rulers yet have been monarchs, and are widely respected in even non-indian companies)
In my opinion citizens are also responsible for corruption, If citizens will not know their rights , then how can we imagine a good future for that country , It is also a worried part for INDIA , All citizen of India will be know about their rights and their voting value , we always only talk that there is so much corruption and all leaders are responsible for this but nobody does not even a try to remove this , trying to get the job done quickly, we are encouraging it (Corruption)
Why at first place should democracy have a price as high as corruption? Why can't the rules & regulations made in a democratic country be followed religiously by every single native. If one follows the regulations without trying to interpretate them to suit personal needs then corruption would not be there. Democracy is there to give power to the people contrary to Morarchy which gave power to only one person. In India the powers are distributed amongst the politicians and those with money + muscles or snatched by . I do not call it democracy in true sense at all. Such so called democracy is worse than Morarchy in my opinion.